Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

For discussion of the Voltage Modular synthesis ecosystem.
Cherry Garcia
Site Admin
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:57 am

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by Cherry Garcia » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:38 pm

Jojimbo370,

I checked it out myself and, indeed you are right. Maybe its because I also have a FocusRite?...For me I see a tick on the audio inputs of Voltage which is causing the glitch. Its different than I thought and it should be fixable. For certain drivers, it happens less frequently.
Is that what you are seeing? Are you seeing the ticks in the input like the attached image?
voltage-prob-in-fl-studio.jpg
voltage-prob-in-fl-studio.jpg (240.36 KiB) Viewed 3078 times
(FYI - this is definitely not the Cubase 9.5 problem, though. This is unrelated)

jojimbo370
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:05 pm

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by jojimbo370 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:57 pm

Cherry Garcia wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:38 pm
Jojimbo370,

I checked it out myself and, indeed you are right. Maybe its because I also have a FocusRite?...For me I see a tick on the audio inputs of Voltage which is causing the glitch. Its different than I thought and it should be fixable. For certain drivers, it happens less frequently.
Is that what you are seeing? Are you seeing the ticks in the input like the attached image?

voltage-prob-in-fl-studio.jpg

(FYI - this is definitely not the Cubase 9.5 problem, though. This is unrelated)
Confirmed, this is exactly what happens, the "tick" seems to be random and shows in "audio in from host".

Cherry Garcia
Site Admin
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:57 am

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by Cherry Garcia » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:27 pm

Thanks for that confirmation. We are looking into it and I expect this should be easy to fix.

mattbarker
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:22 am

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by mattbarker » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:48 am

Im getting crackles since last update also. Cubase 10 Artist here.
It seems intermittent, often starts spiking CPU when i add an insert effect.

Tried the different options for cpu and gpu in the settings, didnt seem to change it.

Cherry Garcia
Site Admin
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:57 am

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by Cherry Garcia » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:16 pm

Matt,

How many instances of VM are you using in Cubase? If more than one, this could be part of the problem. We noticed an issue with multiple instances and our new multi-threading code. We put in a fix which we expect out early next week. (Monday or Tuesday, most likely).

Otherwise, is it just this insert? Will it happen on a project with just one instance of Voltage?

Let us know!

mattbarker
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:22 am

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by mattbarker » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:58 pm

Hi Cherry
it's a single instance of VM yes.

It seems to trigger the CPU spike more often when I add an insert effect (just builtin Cubase ones like quadrafuzz, I tested this to rule out other 3rd party plugins causing the spikes).
Standalone works fine.

Great to hear there's some fixes coming. Thanks!

Cherry Garcia
Site Admin
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:57 am

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by Cherry Garcia » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:07 pm

One of the fixes is related to the FX/insert version of the plugin. It did not support OpenGL properly.

HowlingMod
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:17 pm

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by HowlingMod » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:08 pm

today i have bought the update to cubase 10 pro. i couldn't wait any longer for the sale..

so i was curious, why? i mentioned the problems i had with VM, with cubase 9.5 pro, crashes, crackles, latency spikes.. and crashing of 9.5. the only answer i got, go to cubase 10, or trial will also work. so now i have cubase 10 (10.0.20) pro....

i will further investigate, but some presets seem to work "fine", but with multithreading off, and they have spikes but not in the red. other presets, i can get them only playing, with record armed off (so the cubase asio guard kicks in...).
when record armed, immense spikes, when record armed off; the preset plays well. but when closing the project; crash of cubase 10.0.20 pro...

this is somewhat confusing; i tried several presets of my own (most are "drafts", i want to make FX modular patches on the go, for sound design), i didn't write down things, etc.

this is a first draft, because i am disappointed, that the problems stay. i shall try, opengl off, etc..

i shall test more presets, perhaps also the cherry audio ones, but my main concern are my own, i want to use them in the DAW that is center of all i have (and yes i can do it in reaper, or sample it, there are workarounds; but i want to make effects. i predevoleped some things, that look pretty "stupid", but can do a lot for me).

the problem of sharing my presets; i use the plugin host a lot; that is why i bought VM, i use it also for modular work, but mainly for effect chains, modulation. i do not have many presets yet of that type, only drafts, because, again, they will be used in cubase 10 pro.

so, they won't work on every system... and sometimes when the vst plugins are on a different location, the parameters are forgotten... (i work on 2 systems, with VM, but that problem is now solved... same locations...)

but it seems to me, the multiple plugin hosts (and i load VM as a vst3, that is standard in cubase), that are sometimes mixed vst2/vst3 (Native Instruments.... only vst2). or the latency of the plugin hosts, i repeat the intense use of plugin hosts looks like one of the factors that creates problems.

sorry for this long post, with not a very detailed, or accurate description of the problem(s).

the only thing it does not always crash cubase anymore.. and some patches play... but the strange spikes.

again sorry, i had to write this. i like VM, it gives me what i want (and i also use softube modular, and reaktor [full], and reaktor rack packs.. but i use them all differently. and yes SM load sloooooow, and reaktor has some bugs... and the packs too...), but i can not use it real-time in cubase...

i thought why did i buy reaper instead of the update, after i bought reaper. reaper works for VM, still the only DAW, without problems for VM. in my case.

i have 2 systems, but only on one system all the 4 or 5 DAW's (if you count maschine...).
i7-6700K (@4.4), 32 gb, gtx 1060 6gb, win 10 pro. voltage modular core; psp ultimate, andrew macaulay ultimate, ben davis complete, MRB (all), Vult, Weevil, one & two year bundle etc.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

Cherry Garcia
Site Admin
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:57 am

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by Cherry Garcia » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:17 pm

HowlingMod,

Do you have the latest version? (1.3.11) https://cherryaudio.com/voltage-modular/download

The very bad and very obvious problem in Cubase 9.5 on Windows definitely went away in Cubase 10. It was so obvious, you could just load an oscillator and move the mouse and a two second audio gap would occur. So that is not the same as crackles in these various scenarios, as you know.

I would recommend using Voltage Modular as either a VST2 or VST3. Try not to mix them in the same project, if possible, as this will add extra overhead.

I recommend turning on Voltage's multi-threaded option for faster computers. It definitely reduces crackles for more intense presets. Also, this will use more CPU, as it prevents crackles. And, if your graphics card is integrated with the CPU, that could definitely be an issue when using OpenGL.

Voltage Modular is powerful but it can also be CPU intensive depending on the modules being used. In a traditional synth, the processing can be optimized, but VM has to process each module one sample at a time. So there is more overhead that way.

What is it about Reaper that is different? Is it using the same driver model? ASIO? etc? Is it the sample rate? Latency? Make sure you are comparing those settings and maybe you can figure out what makes Reaper work the best for you. (Believe me, it sounds like you have investigated this - but maybe there is something you overlooked?) Does Reaper use OpenGL, for example?

What latency are you running at? Does it improve if you change your latency?
When you say you are getting spikes. can you explain that more? Maybe a video would be insightful.

Thanks!

HowlingMod
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:17 pm

Re: Clicking/Crackle sound when playing every note in DAW

Post by HowlingMod » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:11 am

Cherry Garcia wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:17 pm
HowlingMod,

Do you have the latest version? (1.3.11) https://cherryaudio.com/voltage-modular/download

The very bad and very obvious problem in Cubase 9.5 on Windows definitely went away in Cubase 10. It was so obvious, you could just load an oscillator and move the mouse and a two second audio gap would occur. So that is not the same as crackles in these various scenarios, as you know.

I would recommend using Voltage Modular as either a VST2 or VST3. Try not to mix them in the same project, if possible, as this will add extra overhead.

I recommend turning on Voltage's multi-threaded option for faster computers. It definitely reduces crackles for more intense presets. Also, this will use more CPU, as it prevents crackles. And, if your graphics card is integrated with the CPU, that could definitely be an issue when using OpenGL.

Voltage Modular is powerful but it can also be CPU intensive depending on the modules being used. In a traditional synth, the processing can be optimized, but VM has to process each module one sample at a time. So there is more overhead that way.

What is it about Reaper that is different? Is it using the same driver model? ASIO? etc? Is it the sample rate? Latency? Make sure you are comparing those settings and maybe you can figure out what makes Reaper work the best for you. (Believe me, it sounds like you have investigated this - but maybe there is something you overlooked?) Does Reaper use OpenGL, for example?

What latency are you running at? Does it improve if you change your latency?
When you say you are getting spikes. can you explain that more? Maybe a video would be insightful.

Thanks!
thank you for response. i will investigate further. but here are some first details:
- i do not mix VM instances. i use one VM instance, with plugin hosts (and sometimes they are mixed, because for example the RC 24 has no vst3 version).
- multithreading of VM is off, because then the plugin won't work... in cubase
- i have 1060gtx 6gb GPU, with 3 screens attached.
- reaper (and all other DAW's) same asio driver; the motu asio driver for a motu ultralite mk3 hybrid on windows 7 pro. for reaper, ableton, maschine, reason; same latency.
(but asio guard is on, "normal", in cubase, but that only matters for non armed tracks)
- spikes; the blue peak meter. not the average green one..
- i get the spikes also with presets from cherry audio.
- with one patch cubase exits abnormal (patch of own making)
- i have the latest version of VM
- the processor is a i7 6700k, on a conservative overclock of 4.4 ghz (for audio i always use my own energy plan, or how it is called, proc runs 100% all the time, and small tweaks in windows, in bios).
- latency: 256 samples. no other plugin presents that problem. even softube modular (although it loads sooo slow, but it is known issue, that they didn't repair yet, it is months...)
- didn't try higher latency settings
- didn't try the vst2 version of VM

- some patches, even my own, without plugin host, or sometimes with two plugin hosts, but not that complex, will play, but i see, the peak meter (latency meter of cubase) going almost in to red, it has it's own rythm....

it can be the nvidia card, all game related stuff is deleted, no geforce experience installed, only the driver. latest version by the way.

it can be system dependend my problems. i have decided to take step to windows 10 pro, i have a seperate license for it, for my main DAW station, but when.. i want to work, not installing...
but that is beside the point now.

i know that avast can cause problems, a long time ago (1 or 2 years), i had audio problems, i turned of the shields, didn't matter, did all kind of trouble shooting, in the end, deinstalling avast, that was the answer. now i have avast again, no problems. but it can with VM.

so perhaps the problem win 7 - cubase 10 - nvidia?
because, my intiution (and my intiution has lead many times to discover the problem, not always....), is the openGL, graphics related.

- o i turned off openGL, made it worse

EDIT:
- i repeat, VM is the only plugin i have that has this behavior. it looks like a plugin, that i loaded, when not on high performance mode, than you also see those latency blue peak spikes. but it never leads to real dropouts, it just sometimes leads to crackles. i sometimes forget to set the high performance mode (because the built in cubase one, doesn't set usb, and other things. necessary, because that leads to other problems. even my balanced energy profile, is tweaked. the only difference with high is: not 100% proc, and screen goes off after 15 minutes. i use a lot of controllers, so in high energy plan, screens will not go blank, because i do not touch a mouse or computer keyboard.)

- that does not mean, that i don't like VM, on the contrary, but you can imagine, "i want to play with VM, make strange sounds, and effects, in the DAW, for sound design!" i love it.

- in reaper it works best. ableton has also it's problems. so perhaps something with my system? but what? a clean install will be necessary, the windows 7 is instaled, 2 years or 3 years ago..

EDIT 2:
- i do not know if reaper uses openGL, i think so, what program doesn't? reaper i do not own so long, specially bought it for VM (yes i can extend the demo endless..).
- the difference visually is: when resizing plugins, reaper doesn't draw the plugins, as cubase does. it remains blank, until you end resizing, so it handles things differently. not always in a better way, it too has problems with plugins that resize themselves, and can be resized by reaper, or host. in cubase the same problem, most of the times, only the first time..

EDIT 3:

- my first post about my problems with cubase 10 pro, was brabbling, i was very disappointed. cubase is my main daw, although i use other ecosystems, and in periods a lot, cubase is the center. it works for me in way no other daw can work for me (that is only because i am used to it..... so it is not a judgment about the "best" daw). now i am more relaxed, getting used to cubase 10. but VM was meant for cubase, not ableton, or reaper, or maschine. because in cubase i want to do things, i have many ideas, with VM, an extension of cubase (as many plugins are of course...).
i7-6700K (@4.4), 32 gb, gtx 1060 6gb, win 10 pro. voltage modular core; psp ultimate, andrew macaulay ultimate, ben davis complete, MRB (all), Vult, Weevil, one & two year bundle etc.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

Post Reply