Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

For discussion of the Voltage Modular synthesis ecosystem.
ulrichburke
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:39 am

Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by ulrichburke »

Dear Anyone.

Hokay, I've sent this as a message to Support but I know Supports, you might get an answer from Santa Claus if you're lucky. So here's the same thing incase anyone here can help me.

Dear Cherry Audio. I've gone through the entire manual. I've found the keyboard. I've loaded up noisemakers. I can't get a squeak out of it. Not one note can I get! That manual assumes we know too much.

I've got Windows 10 with High Definition Audio Codec. I've found that if I pull on the little circles, wires come out and can be attached to other little circles. Fair enough. What wires do I attach to which little circles to get noises coming out of the machine? Your manual doesn't say that. Or if it DOES, it's not obvious enough to us noobs. There's also 404s in the manual and a reference to a video which isn't there. Click on the yellow continuation segments and you'll see what I mean.

Please. Put a chunk in the front of the manual that just walks us through pulling the little wires out and attaching them to SOMETHING that gets noises coming out, explaining WHY the wires have to be like that, if you do the same thing whenever you load a module, HOW/WHY you route modules in the way you do, whatever that way is.... I've spent 4 days on this thing, solid, and I've still yet to get any kind of sound coming out of it. I'm sure it's a great piece of kit but you've just lost me as a customer until you tell me, and all others like me, how to get noises coming out the other end. Flat not seeing it! And don't forget the Page Not Found and the missing video clip, prob. not helping.

Adding this bit which I didn't send to them - it's not I've not found the OUTS, or I'm pretty sure I have. I'm pulling little wires from the modules to the OUTS but still not getting any sounds. I'm pulling little wires to join the modules together - no idea if I'm joining them together in the right PLACES because the manual doesn't TELL you anything like that, it's too basic for the manual - and then taking what look like main wires and putting them in the OUTS, no noise. Tried using ASIO4ALL, no noise. And I'm betting I'm not the only one.

Remember us noobs know absolutely nothing. Put the above chunk in the manual on what to wire to which and why. If it's any help, or you want to laugh a little louder, I owned Reason for 5 months. I never, ever got any noise out of Reason till about 4 months in. And I never, ever got the hang of what to wire to which and why. Because the Reason manual doesn't tell you that stuff. So I just uninstalled it. Might be a great musicmaker, Reason, but not if you can't use it because the manual doesn't start basically enough. This thing works the same way as Reason. And this manual has exactly the same problem.

Yours with extreme frustration


Chris.
ulrichburke
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:39 am

Re: Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by ulrichburke »

Sorry, addendum to the above, and really to the version I sent to Support, missed the important bit out, my bad!

Yes, I did find the little keyboard. I've tried it with computer keyboard keys AND with the mouse, pressing on the keys with the mouse pointer. They go up and down and change colour to yellow (as it's Cherry Audio, surely it should be red!?!) Anyway.

You guessed it. STILL no noise!! And there's not even any circles on it to pull cables out of so it obviously expects to make noise by default. Not for me it isn't.

Windows 10 and High Definition Audio Codec, and ASIO4ALL and MIDI-YOKE. All replies will be tried!

Yours respectfully

Chris.
ulrichburke
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:39 am

Re: Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by ulrichburke »

HALLELUJAH - FOUND THE WHITE NOISE THING - IT ACTUALLY MAKES NOISE!!! It's not tuneful and the keyboard don't do anything but at least I've proven this thing CAN make noise!!

Thing IS - I got noise out of it by stretching a cable from the 'White Noise' socket to the '1R' output. I've tried that with the arpeggiator and most of the other modules. Why in tarnation don't THEY make any noises!?!

Last post till someone answers me. Promise!

Yours respectfully

Chris.
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xuoham
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:30 am
Location: Okinawa, Japan / Paris, France

Re: Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by xuoham »

Hi and welcome !

You will probably be better off loading presets and examine their guts. This and the help for every module should be fine.

I was a newbie at "eurorack style" modular (Used Bidule and Reaktor, though) and this worked for me.

The beginning is a bit hard if you take even a simple sound for granted ("what !? gonna have to 1 osc. + 1vca + 1vcf + 1env. !!???" ) but is is rewarding in that your imagination is the limit.

There are also websites like this one :

https://learningmodular.com/
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SpaceDog
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:29 am

Re: Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by SpaceDog »

The manual is more of a reference point (i.e. "what does this control do...?" style). Personally, I'm thankful for that. it means that I can dip in, get exactly what I need, and get out again. I've just never been one for manuals, except when I'm really stuck :)

I posted recently, noting that I was a newbie to VM, but not to modular, or synths in general. The point raised here leads to a common issue when people move from pre-wired synths that make a noise instantly to something from which a noise has to coaxed, and gently for the sake of your long-term hearing. A common issue with modular users is that their modular won't stop making a noise, "it has a life of its own", then they're introduced to the concept of the VCA and how to control it. Then it all starts to make sense.

It's quite similar here. As has been pointed out it's necessary to understand synthesis in general, then modular synthesis (i.e. someone hasn't wired it up for you), and then apply that to what you have within VM. You can just fire up a preset and then start playing with it - not only will it work, but it will also teach you quite a bit about modules that you might never have heard of.

Then there's YouTube. What did we do before YouTube...? Here are two useful starter videos that might help:
https://youtu.be/HQ5i-AtvYj0
https://youtu.be/Xe_EoXOMMU4

Then there are really interesting books, such as "Patch & Tweak" that will introduce you to some really interesting ideas. You can find most of it for free with some googling, but the book is nice, and it's fun to dip into for random ideas now and then.

Anyway, enjoy the journey, it's meant to be fun.
Last edited by SpaceDog on Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ColinP
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Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:46 pm

Re: Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by ColinP »

Hi and welcome.

Unlike with some companies, you should get a response from Cherry Audio support within a day or two. Note that they are a tiny little company and they don't have a team of ten people waiting to BS you and sell you stuff.

Posters above have given you some excellent advice and SpaceDog gave a great link. Here it is again...

https://cherryaudio.com/resources/video ... irst-synth

The video is a couple of years old but is still an extremely useful intro to VM.

And don't be hard on yourself. Modular synthesis is not an easy subject, so take your time. Read or watch some tutorial material as without the basics you have as much chance of producing anything musically useful as you would if you ordered automobile parts and bolted them together in random ways hoping to produce a car that you could drive.

One common problem for beginners is confusing control signals and audio signals. These are technically interchangeable because they are just voltages (well, numbers more accurately) and when you get further along it makes sense that they are interchangeable. But to begin with the distinction is useful.

So the little keyboard gadget that you found doesn't produce an audio signal, instead it feeds control voltages to the sockets at the top left of the VM window. So when you click on one of its little keys the PITCH socket will produce a voltage that represents the pitch. To actually hear anything you need to patch this voltage to the 1 V per octave input of an oscillator and then patch an output from the oscillator to the 1 L (M) socket of MAIN OUTS at the top right of the window.

Be patient and try not to expect anything amazing until you have spent a few weeks following tutorials and messing around. And as already mentioned presets are definitely a good the place to start. They will enable you to produce some nice sounds without having to really understand what is happening at first.
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seal58
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Re: Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by seal58 »

Hi Chris,
I assume, you will need some basic knowledge on analogue synthesis. You can get it by searching in Wikipedia or YouTube by looking for "modular synthesis".
There are different kinds of signals.
So an arpeggiator will not create any sound. It produces control voltages or MIDI values, that influence an oscillator.
Only Oscillators and noise generators make useful sounds.

Good Luck
Roland
schoekah
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:24 am

Re: Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by schoekah »

Hi OP
I'm surprised that you're having a different experience than me, because I learned synthesis on voltage modular, and I thought it was great.

I started by watching the 2 or 3 beginners guide videos done by Cherry Audio on youtube.
These probably also cover the important stuff like picking the settings/audio device type (windows audio for me) and using that test button until you hear a tone come out.

Pluginboutique on youtube also has 3 beginners vids.
Venus Theory has beginners vids.
pause the vid, do what they do.

They'll all tell you to start with an oscillator, and show you how to connect it.
I'd recommend then reading the user guide for that module before adding a second module. learn what each jack and knob does. don't buy more modules until you figure out what most of those 22 nucleus modules do. add one at a time then figure out what it does before adding another. Unless it's ring mod - that doesn't do anything.

big idea: wires carry either sound or voltage.
another big idea: jacks on a module are either in jacks or out jacks

so do that, but if you're going to ignore that, learn each of these modules in this order
oscillator, amplifier, envelope generator
then oscilloscope - run a duplicate wire out of each thing into this guy, one at a time, and look at what each wire is carrying, and if it changes when you twist something

youtube, then one at a time together with the manual
somebodyelseuk
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:00 pm

Re: Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by somebodyelseuk »

I'm new myself and understand your frustration, but from what I can fathom, VM is laid out, and works like a hardware modular synth.
My advice, youtube, Cherry Audio, playlists - tutorials. Excellant way to gain a little understanding.
The manual... well, it's a bit like buying a Corolla and expecting Toyota to teach you to drive, or a Strat and asking Fender for guitar lessons.

I'm on the lookout for a general 'How to play modular synths book' as we speak.
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seal58
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Re: Your manual's gonna have to get a LOT more basic for us newbies....

Post by seal58 »

Hi,
this website may be helpful:
"A Generalized Introduction to Modular Analogue Synthesis Concepts, by Kevin Austin"
https://econtact.ca/17_4/austin_synthesis.html
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