why does VM perform so bad in cubase pro 11?

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HowlingMod
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why does VM perform so bad in cubase pro 11?

Post by HowlingMod » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:40 am

of course patches can be a strain on the buffer, but the patches i make, work quite well in for example, ableton live 10 suite, or for MPE in bitwig studio 3.3, or reaper 6.15.

but since i own VM it never works that well in cubase pro 9.5 (but that couldn't be fixed), so i bought pro 10, better performance, still.. and now on cubase pro 11.

erratic peaks, i call them, the average load seems quite ok, for the patches. when i close the GUI, i get a better performance, also on 512 sample buffer size. but still...

i notice that even when the GUI is closed, if i open a window of cubase, it creates a click, a peak..
(using openGL or not, 2 threads or 1 one thread, no changes).

is it my system: i7-6700K (@4.4. steady overclock), windows 10 20H2 (but all other windows versions of ten had the same problem).
32gb.
nvidia gtxt 1060gb 6 gb (studio driver, driver only)
tweaked bios, tweaked windows (windows not that tweaked, but performs for audio quite excellent if i compare to systems with even more power..).

3 ssd's and one HD. self-built by the way.

motu ultralite mk3 hybrid (and i also tested with the maschine mk3 soundcard, and the umc204hd, no changes).

it is the only plugin that acts this way in cubase. even softube modular can hold quite extreme patches (of course, softube modular is a beast for the cpu, but still it is more quit, no strange peaks) or reaktor.

24bit/48000Khz projects.

it is a long standing problem, but i can use other DAW's, so.. but still cubase i also want to use...

i had contact about it with cherry audio, long time ago, also because at some point i gave up. i bought reaper, for it.. (and strangely, other DAW's later on... not for VM specifically of course..).

it seems it only it happens in my case?

so the normal troubleshooting i did. and all abnormal..

main observation, already mentioned, seems to be conflict with GUI handling in cubase. it pops and clicks even when opening other windows.

even with softube modular, that has an average load of say 80% (buffer, and of course you always can put more on it.. the buffer reading is for one track only in way, and in the end for all tracks.), i can load firefox on the background. without problems.

i only mention softube modular, as a comparision to the way it acts. no problems, when the GUI is open of softube modular. no clicks/plops as with VM.

and in bitwig studio 3.3 for instance, mainly into MPE patches now... it works.

so, it can be a very system related problem. or not?
i7-6700K (@4.4), 32 gb, gtx 1060 6gb, win 10 pro. voltage modular core; psp ultimate, andrew macaulay ultimate, ben davis complete, MRB (all), Vult, Weevil, one & two year bundle etc.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

HowlingMod
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Re: why does VM perform so bad in cubase pro 11?

Post by HowlingMod » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:34 pm

i know it is a long text: summary:

erratic peaks in cubase pro 11 (and i had in 10, 10.5). so a lot of crackles.

no-one else experiences this?
i7-6700K (@4.4), 32 gb, gtx 1060 6gb, win 10 pro. voltage modular core; psp ultimate, andrew macaulay ultimate, ben davis complete, MRB (all), Vult, Weevil, one & two year bundle etc.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

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cherryaudio Greg
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Re: why does VM perform so bad in cubase pro 11?

Post by cherryaudio Greg » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:08 pm

Hi,

Some things to try:

1. Turn off logging in General settings.
2. Try it with OpenGL on and off in CPU settings.
3. Also in CPU settings, play around with the "Use Multiple Threads..." setting. On/off, less threads/more threads.
4. Does hiding cables help?

There's an update coming, but I'm not sure whether it will affect the issue you're experiencing. It might.

Greg

HowlingMod
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Re: why does VM perform so bad in cubase pro 11?

Post by HowlingMod » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:15 pm

cherryaudio Greg wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:08 pm
Hi,

Some things to try:

1. Turn off logging in General settings.
2. Try it with OpenGL on and off in CPU settings.
3. Also in CPU settings, play around with the "Use Multiple Threads..." setting. On/off, less threads/more threads.
4. Does hiding cables help?

There's an update coming, but I'm not sure whether it will affect the issue you're experiencing. It might.

Greg
1. never tried that, will do.
2. tried it a lot.. with openGL less problems..
3. tried it also a lot. also in combi with 2..
4. didn't tried that, will try it.

when i close the GUI, it performs better still, it interferes when i open a window in cubase, a crackle. a common thing in cubase, but has become less of a problem, closing the GUI with certain plugins. but still VM, the GUI thread is still acting up, i am not a coder (or completely out of touch, so i try to understand how it works, processSample() is the only function i know...).
and erratic peaks still appear. i now work at 512 samples, for 2 or 3 years, with my current soundcard, always at 256, but more demanding plugins, i have. so, but no prob. even if the latency is not that great.. but the latency give me no problem for playing live. so..

256 to 512, gives a somewhat lower average load, but erratic peaks still happen (with erratic peaks i mean, even when i play nothing, or i play, there is no correlation with what i am playing, and the peaks are fast, and sometimes "hold", for half a second or so, or less.)

no probs in bitwig, ableton, reaper, didn't try reason. also in maschine 2.x (latest version) VM performs quite well.

only cubase...

thanks for your response!! i hope the update will help...

in layman's terms: it is if VM and cubase are fighting, and it seems, or most likely, the GUI. i use by the way 3 screens..
and sometimes it is quite easy, the peak load.

computer is optimized, i already mentioned that, bios, high performance, all the usual suspects. the system with the old i7-6700k (@4.4) (because of the ZEN race...) is still pretty capable for real-time audio. latency mon is very quite, and positive. even when i do things that you don't do while running it..

but my guess; a problem between cubase and VM and GUI (handling). can be system specific, i don't know. i hope not, and if it is, hope there is a solution.

o well the solution is, to have 5 (or do i have 6 DAW's? yes..) DAW's, but it is nice to work with VM in cubase, which was the intention..

thanks again!
i7-6700K (@4.4), 32 gb, gtx 1060 6gb, win 10 pro. voltage modular core; psp ultimate, andrew macaulay ultimate, ben davis complete, MRB (all), Vult, Weevil, one & two year bundle etc.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

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cherryaudio Greg
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Re: why does VM perform so bad in cubase pro 11?

Post by cherryaudio Greg » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:30 pm

Hi,

I hadn't noticed problems in Cubase 10.5, but I hadn't extensively used it for big projects.

Greg

schoekah
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Re: why does VM perform so bad in cubase pro 11?

Post by schoekah » Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:36 am

I'd be curious if the issue appears on a second computer that's stock, without all those tweaks. . ., with standard windows audio, without an audio interface, without asio, etc. wouldn't surprise me if steinberg isn't doing some covert low level $hit with hardware interface since they invented asio.

HowlingMod
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Re: why does VM perform so bad in cubase pro 11?

Post by HowlingMod » Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:28 am

schoekah wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:36 am
I'd be curious if the issue appears on a second computer that's stock, without all those tweaks. . ., with standard windows audio, without an audio interface, without asio, etc. wouldn't surprise me if steinberg isn't doing some covert low level $hit with hardware interface since they invented asio.
i have cubase installed on two systems. a desktop and a laptop (i7-9750H, 16gb, gtx 1050 4gb). i can try it. but: it only happens with VM. all other plugins, perform about the same, in all (...) my DAW's.
cherryaudio Greg wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:30 pm
Hi,

I hadn't noticed problems in Cubase 10.5, but I hadn't extensively used it for big projects.

Greg
i try VM as only plugin.. via maschine as a plugin, it works much better (loaded in maschine as plugin.. closed GUI of VM).

EDIT: i mean i don't use VM in cubase, when i need it, i choose another DAW... but i use it sometimes in a maschine project (that i make standalone, and the add as plugin to cubase, for more stuff, maschine can't do.. ow well maschine can do now more...)

EDIT 2: i test VM in cubase. to get it working. without crackles. the patch i try now is quite intensive, 8 voice polyphony, MPE, etc.
it works for example in bitwig studio 3.3 without any noticable problems at 256 samples, and in ableton live 10 suite, other patches work quite well, also on 256 samples.
but 512 samples in cubase, does not do the trick, closing the transport panel... it seems like they fight with eachother.. why?

which system do you use, greg. mac/windows? it can, as i said, be user specific, the problem occurs on 2 systems, different specs, but still in same domain (intel + nvidia).

what i have noticed: the transport panel i always have on my second screen (from the 3..). if i close that window. at 512 samples, i get a performance, with closed GUI of VM, that is normal. i don't why i have it on my second screen, o yes, when, playing i can see, the bars..

but still then, when i pop up the mixer, a crackle. second time the mixer, not...

o yes, i always use the VST3 version, or did i try also the VST2 version (don't know if it even show up, in cubase. sometimes only VST3 versions, sometimes VST2+VST3 (if of course a plugin has a VST3)).
i7-6700K (@4.4), 32 gb, gtx 1060 6gb, win 10 pro. voltage modular core; psp ultimate, andrew macaulay ultimate, ben davis complete, MRB (all), Vult, Weevil, one & two year bundle etc.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

HowlingMod
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Re: why does VM perform so bad in cubase pro 11?

Post by HowlingMod » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:48 am

hiding cables; and the track is armed (that costs the most processing power) seems to do the trick, and must try more buffer-loading patches (buffer-loading patches? that strain cubase..);

so hiding cables reduces the erratic peaks, average load isn't affected, the peak load is reduced, quite a lot.
even simple patches, produce erratic peaks, quite high;

hide cables

erratic peaks gone.

and again average load does not seem to affect much.

erratic peaks are always a sign of bad plugin behavior (or bad plugin behavior, in the case of cubase..).
i7-6700K (@4.4), 32 gb, gtx 1060 6gb, win 10 pro. voltage modular core; psp ultimate, andrew macaulay ultimate, ben davis complete, MRB (all), Vult, Weevil, one & two year bundle etc.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

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