Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

For discussion of the Voltage Modular synthesis ecosystem.
schoekah
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by schoekah »

rfj wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:19 pm [wisdom and clarity]
I agree!
Thanks for chiming in, Cherry Garcia.
wavemechanic
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by wavemechanic »

Voltage NEEDS to support 96kHz natively. Enough of this 48kHz religion. It introduces signifiant levels of aliasing. Admittedly, I adore Voltage despite this. I love everything about it except for this. If the point of virtual modular is to sound analog, then aliasing has got to go. This thread has already massively diverged from my initial complaint, veering way off topic; so I am indulging in that digression. This issue is a big deal to me, and so far, every comment I have made about it has been ignored... which leads me to believe that addressing it involves a fundamental change to the code base. But that is just a guess. I'll tell you this though: When VCV (which does support 96kHz natively) finally gets a stable AU, it's likely to become my modular of choice. Since Softube was already mentioned in this thread, I'll add that the new Softube modules courtesy of Model 1972 are unbelievably good. The full plugin alone is one of the most convincing analog sounds I've ever heard generated on my laptop. I really want 96kHz for Voltage. If that just isn't possible, I'll shut up. Otherwise, it's my #1 request.
cherryMitch
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by cherryMitch »

rfj wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:19 pm I agree that making VSTs it’s not the way to go. The product that gave Cherry Audio a name is Voltage Modular and I think most VM owners would prefer more news and modules in the modular realm. Softube launched their utterly brillian Doepfer inspired Softube Modular and after the initial frenzy of third party modules they let it fade away with almost no new modules in months. The uber famous open source virtual modular VCV Rack has a base of thousands of users and developers providing lots of new modules almost everyday most of them free. Cherry Audio should concentrate on expanding the community of users with developers of hardware modular as Erica, Befaco or Mutable Instruments porting their hardware modules to software (just like VCV Rack does). Having installed VCV Rack with his vast library of third party modules I think overall sound quality is slighty better in Voltage Modular. But VCV Rack shows the way to go for Cherry Audio: STAY IN THE SOFTWARE MODULAR REALM AND MAKE IT A STRONG MODULAR PLATTFORM. Today VCV Rack has a community of users and developers almost as big as the users of hardware eurorack. THAT’S THE WAY TO GO. Forget about the already crowded VST softynth emulations market. They are thousands of them. We don’t need more VST softsynths please. I think most of us are here because we want to be part of a worlwide ever expanding modular synth community.
As Joseph mentioned earlier in the thread, we have NO intention of abandoning the VM platform, and we have multiple new modules currently under development (in addition to the constant stream of new third-party modules). FWIW, there are currently 683 VM modules - I can't even begin to keep track anymore. :)

We would be delighted to have Erica, Befaco, etc. in VM. In some cases it's tricky, b/c analog hardware obviously isn't simply a matter of "porting over." In the case of Befaco, I believe they have some kind of exclusive with VCV (I may be wrong). We'd love to have the Mutable modules, but the port is pretty intensive, so not sure if that'll happen (third parties?).

We do hope you'll continue to support Cherry and Voltage Modular - the more we can grow our customer base, the more cool stuff we can do all around.
rfj
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by rfj »

wavemechanic wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:23 am Voltage NEEDS to support 96kHz natively. Enough of this 48kHz religion. It introduces signifiant levels of aliasing. Admittedly, I adore Voltage despite this. I love everything about it except for this. If the point of virtual modular is to sound analog, then aliasing has got to go. This thread has already massively diverged from my initial complaint, veering way off topic; so I am indulging in that digression. This issue is a big deal to me, and so far, every comment I have made about it has been ignored... which leads me to believe that addressing it involves a fundamental change to the code base. But that is just a guess. I'll tell you this though: When VCV (which does support 96kHz natively) finally gets a stable AU, it's likely to become my modular of choice. Since Softube was already mentioned in this thread, I'll add that the new Softube modules courtesy of Model 1972 are unbelievably good. The full plugin alone is one of the most convincing analog sounds I've ever heard generated on my laptop. I really want 96kHz for Voltage. If that just isn't possible, I'll shut up. Otherwise, it's my #1 request.
I also use VCV Rack. Bear in mind that with 96 khz enabled VCV doubles the use of resources (processor, RAM etc....) I guess the cost of having 96 khz enabled in VM would be to use a smaller amount of modules in each patch in order to avoid processor overload.
So I guess for Cherry Audio to choose 48 khz as native sample rate is a sort of compromise between sound quality and maximun limit of number of modules per patch.
Having said that I also own a hardware semimodular analog synth and to me ears VM sounds as analog as the hardware synth (Behringer Neutron).
wavemechanic
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by wavemechanic »

Yes, yes... That is beside the point to me. Yes, it's going to cost CPU to avoid high levels of aliasing. You get what you pay for. The alternative modular synths do it. It should be an option in Voltage for those who feel it is worth the trade off.
martb
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by martb »

Cherry Garcia wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:41 pm martb,

What features do you like the most for a piano roll module?
To be fair, I haven't actually used the Toybox one, but based on some videos I've seen it looks really great.
This one gives a good overview and there are other more in depth ones too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JErU0fxtopA
andro
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by andro »

@rfj, +1
ColinP
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by ColinP »

The thing about 96k sample rate is that it can't just be magically enabled.

VM modules are all written around ProcessSample() which is hardwired at 48 so no existing modules would work at 96.

CA could in a future version add another call like ProcessSample96() and some simple hand-shaking so that future modules capable of 96 could indicate that but at least from my perspective this is not a big priority.

As a developer I feel limited in the opposite direction!

I know people think computers are fast but at 48k we have less than 21 microseconds to get everything done. Those microseconds are shared out amongst all the modules in a patch and I'm interested in BIG patches so we're soon getting down into nanoseconds terrain. To put this in perspective - in one nanosecond light travels less than a foot.

So having to deliver 96k would half the scope of what I can think about.
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Koshdukai
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by Koshdukai »

Cherry Garcia wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:19 pm We have started a new forum section for the DCO. We are broadening our base and many users expressed that they wanted to see the DCO module as a plugin so we built it.
Understandable and a sensible move.

I guess we (I at least) got too used to see news from Cherry Audio about our favorite product, Voltage Modular, so seeing the first non-VM product was kinda confusing to some (me included) but now we know that Cherry Audio is about VM *and* other VSTs :)
wavemechanic
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Re: Confusing post: DCO-106 Polyphonic Synthesizer

Post by wavemechanic »

Thanks for the insight, CollinP. It helps.
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