Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

nkf
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Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by nkf » Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:24 am

I just got Stardust 201 and played with Intensity and Repeat Rate like I did in the past with my 'real' 201s. I was shocked to hear very unpleasant (in this context) bit crusher like artefacts! That is not acceptable for a device emulating analog tape sound.
Switching to DAW sync seems to make the output more prone for these errors.
Just try the following to hear it clearly: play some notes into the Stardust 201 with a Intensity pushed to long feedbacks, then move the Repeat Rate up and down quickly and play more notes, slow down Repeat Rate and listen -> aliasing sound frenzy!
I double checked with other Space Echo emulations and these don't have such problems.
Nailing the sound of Repeat Time and Intensity movements combined is crucial for the realistic sound of the Space Echos - you enjoy twisting these knobs together and don't want and expect digital artefacts with this.

nkf
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Re: Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by nkf » Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:54 pm

The post from yesterday was related to my Windows workstation, now I checked it with a Mac and this nasty bug occurs very similar. It was directly prominent with "sync" on. Both machines have Nuendo 11 as hosts. On the Mac there is an additional artefact: it sounds sometimes like reversed sounds. The 'bit crusher' like artefacts are also easily audible.
I'm puzzled this had passed beta testing.

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cherryaudio Greg
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Re: Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by cherryaudio Greg » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:56 pm

Hi,

Please you post a sample preset that exhibits this behavior?

Or, send in a support request and attach the preset: https://cherryaudio.kayako.com/conversation/new

Greg

nkf
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Re: Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by nkf » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:39 pm

cherryaudio Greg wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:56 pm
Hi,

Please you post a sample preset that exhibits this behavior?

Or, send in a support request and attach the preset: https://cherryaudio.kayako.com/conversation/new

Greg
I can do that, but it is VERY easy to try yourself. I'm in midst of several productions. Just follow my notes in the first posting. Use Nuendo 11, probably it's the same in Cubase 11. The artefacts are always repeatable!
If you try it for yourself, you get a better feeling how these artefacts accumulate and under which condition. I did a lot beta testing in the past (Waves, Steinberg, AKAI etc. - right now Acon) and know it is real work to show the problems. What I observed should have never slipped in house or beta testing! I really like you products and bought a lot from Cherry, but this one was a sloppy release.

nkf
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Re: Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by nkf » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:40 pm

cherryaudio Greg wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:56 pm
Hi,

Please you post a sample preset that exhibits this behavior?

Greg
... and it is not about a preset, it is about moving the knobs! Maybe you read again what I experienced?

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cherryaudio Greg
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Re: Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by cherryaudio Greg » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:28 pm

Hi,

The devil is often in the details, so it helps to know exactly what you're talking about. That's why it's helpful to have a preset that illustrates the problem.

Greg

nkf
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Re: Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by nkf » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:37 pm

cherryaudio Greg wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:28 pm
Hi,

The devil is often in the details, so it helps to know exactly what you're talking about. That's why it's helpful to have a preset that illustrates the problem.

Greg
You can use any preset! The problem is not baken into a preset setting! It is all about playing audio into the input, raise "Intensity" to have some feedback and speed up and down the delay times. If you do it several times and then lengthen the delay time (bring "Repeat Time" to the counter left!) just listen to the result ...
There is your "devil"! Was it clearer now?

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cherryaudio Greg
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Re: Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by cherryaudio Greg » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:50 pm

Hi,

If you click New and turn up the intensity all the way, do you hear what you're talking about?

Greg

nkf
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Re: Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by nkf » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:35 am

cherryaudio Greg wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:50 pm
Hi,

If you click New and turn up the intensity all the way, do you hear what you're talking about?

Greg
I hope you take me serious - I'm not a dork, nor do I play games here. Cherry audio is a great company and I would like this product being what it promised. The base sound is very good!
So, I don't confuse the regular feedback sound (which I know very well) with the artefacts I mentioned. Your question seems to imply that.
It doesn't matter if you choose a new preset, recall one or whatever. When the problematic parameters are chosen the problems begin.
Use Nuendo 11 (Mac or PC), the VST3 of StarDust 201 is loaded and dial in the settings in my screenshot. Play some notes of VSTi or alike, make it clear, simple sounds. Let the feedback roll - now quickly< turn Repeat Rate to the left to the longest rate, bam! nice bit crusher sounds.
It is 100% repeatable in N11. In WaveLab I was NOT able to reproduce it. You have to use Nuendo 11 - newest release 11.0.40.
Don't use other hosts to replicate this problem.
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Steve W
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Re: Artefacts sounding like a Bit Crusher

Post by Steve W » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:22 pm

nkf wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:37 pm
It is all about . . . speed up and down the delay times. . . . .
I have noticed with a number of pieces of software (not just VM) that changing delay times in real time while a sound is playing (especially with a long feedback time) that the pitch slide (what sounds like shifting the sample rate) can be heard repeatedly. Is this what you are talking about?

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